A militia founder says Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy should stick to his convictions, and warns he fears the day when he has to defend himself against his own government.
Oklahoma Volunteer Militia co-founder Scott Shaw, appearing Tuesday on Fox News Channel's "The O'Reilly Factor," agreed with host Bill O'Reilly that Bundy broke the law when he refused to pay grazing fees to the federal government for 20 years, and the two also agreed the U.S. Bureau of Land Management went too far by seizing Bundy's cattle and showing up at his ranch with guns.
Shaw also distanced himself from the rhetoric that came from some of the militia members who showed up to support Bundy.
He added, however, "We always hear that we're a nation of laws, but it turns our we're only a nation of laws when it suits our federal overlords. They like to pick and choose what laws they're going to enforce. And that's not fair. So I understand the frustration from the people on the ground there."
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BLM agents were forced to back down, fearing a dangerous situation when many of Bundy's supporters showed up with guns of their own, threatening to fire back if fired upon.
Asked by O'Reilly to contrast the Bundy supporters and the leftist Occupy Wall Street movement, Shaw said Bundy is providing a service to the nation: beef production.
"The Occupy movement, to this day, I still don't know what they're providing the country with," he said.
Both groups are dissenters, he said, but added that nobody at the Bundy ranch was destroying property.
Shaw told O'Reilly he "definitely" feels oppressed by his government, citing The Patriot Act and The National Defense Authorization Act.
"We're losing ground via our liberties and freedom on a daily basis," he said.
He said he would never provoke a confrontation with the government, but would defend himself it ever takes up arms against him. He believes there is "a very good possibility" that eventually will happen.
O'Reilly told Shaw those words frighten a lot of people, and Shaw agreed they frighten him as well.
He said martial law or a takeover of the banking system would likely provoke the action.
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