Giuliani: Collusion Is Not a Crime, But 'There Was No Collusion'

Rudy Giuliani said Monday afternoon he wanted to clarify statements he had made earlier in the day concerning allegations of collusion between President Donald Trump's campaign and Russia, insisting he had said there was no collusion at all.

"What I said [Monday] was that there was no collusion and that collusion also is no crime," Giuliani told Fox News' "Outnumbered" program, during a call-in interview. "I've been saying that from the very beginning."

Earlier on Monday morning, Trump appeared on the network's "Fox & Friends" broadcast, where he started off the interview talking about the allegations of collusion.

"I've been sitting here looking at the federal code trying to find collusion," Giuliani said earlier in the day, after film clips from several other news broadcasts were played in which reporters and pundits were talking about the collusion claims.

"Collusion is not a crime," he continued on "Fox & Friends." "Everything that's been released so far shows the president to be absolutely innocent of doing anything wrong."

The only crime present concerning the election, he continued during his call-in to "Outnumbered," is about Russian hacking, and it is "ridiculous" to think Trump would be involved in that.

Show host Harris Faulkner asked the former New York City mayor about the June 2016 meeting at Trump Tower involving his oldest son, former campaign manager Paul Manafort and Jared Kushner, after a Russian lawyer and others had offered potential "dirt" on Clinton.

Earlier in the morning, Giuliani had said Trump was not in that meeting, and in fact, there were two different meetings.

Trump's former lawyer, Michael Cohen, Giuliani added the Russia probe "has been continued as an illegitimate investigation."

Harris Faulkner then asked Giuliani about the June 2016 meeting at Trump Tower involving Donald Trump Jr., Paul Manafort, and Jared Kushner, where a Russian lawyer and others on potential "dirt" on Hillary Clinton.

Giuliani added he had said Trump was not in the room for that meeting because there were in fact two different meetings.

Former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen has offered to go on record with special counsel Robert Mueller to give information that Trump knew about the Trump Tower meeting in advance.

"[Cohen] said that he was in President Trump's office, [and] Donald Trump Jr. walked in and told him about the Russian meeting," Giuliani said, adding "that is categorically untrue. Did not happen. Two witnesses demonstrate that."

Giuliani said Trump and senior campaign members did not know the meeting was taking place.

The former mayor also told the "Outnumbered" program Trump will not agree to speak with Mueller unless certain parameters are met, repeating what he had said earlier in the day.

"Right now I'm telling him 'no way,'" he said, adding he has a "sense" Mueller is getting toward the end of his investigation and nothing he would reported two months ago Mueller was looking at issuing a report in September.

However, during his interview with CNN's Alisyn Camerota earlier in the day, Giuliani commented Mueller was looking at a September end for the probe.

"We're mindful that we would like to get this over with by September," Giuliani said earlier Monday. "I do believe Mueller does too. He said something in our last meeting with him where he thought that September was the day to get the report in. It makes sense. It's well before the – not well before but enough before – the November election, so you can't say [it] interfered with [it] one way or the other.

"It's your impression from having spoken to the team they want to wrap it up by September, not just your desire?" Camerota asked him.

"Only impression . . . I got that from Mueller himself," Giuliani told Camerota.

"Mueller told you that?" she asked.

"We talked about [how] part of the negotiation is also timing," Giuliani replied. "If we get an interview, we want to know a report will come out within a fairly short period of time, sitting around biting our nails. They have said that at that point, they had thought that September, early September would be a good guideline. I may have read into that that that's also a good time so you don't get accused of doing a [James] Comey and getting involved in the election."

Meanwhile, he told "Outnumbered" the jury in the case is the "American people," and public opinion is shifting against Mueller's probe.

He also commented about Trump's former attorney Michael Cohen, calling him a "scoundrel" for recording meetings with others.

He commented that, out of 183 recordings seized, about a dozen are of "substance," including 10 featuring Cohen speaking with reporters and one of Cohen and CNN anchor Chris Cuomo, who did not know the attorney was recording him during their two-hour interview.